Sliding down on a crazy carpet ([info]ladylakira) wrote,
@ 2007-09-25 21:56:00
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Entry tags:life

I iz feminism-ing
So, lately in the lab I spend most of my time grinding tissue to fine dust. It's a great work out for my triceps (who knew?) but not much with the brain power. Therefore, random stuff bobs through my brain and it's finally time that I dumped most of it before I go nuts.

Feminism and gaming

A little while ago, [info]jhkimrpg put up a post with some links to various "girl gamers and roleplaying" style posts/articles/etc. Some neat stuff there and inevitably gets me thinking about feminism. Some points of note, not in any particular order nor with any coherency, per se:

- I poked about a little bit on Astrid's Parlor, the D&D 4E forum for... well... girl gamers. Kinda. See, it's been taking some flak for lines like "Supporting female gamers" and "A Safe Haven for Girl Gamers" (not exact words, but close enough - I don't feel like digging right now). The problem is that there's the line deliberately being drawn between Women and Men. It's not about Gender issues, it's about Women's issues, which is taken to mean "excluding Men." (Note the capital letters - I'm talking about the collective unconscious imagining of Woman and Man, not women and men who are in their pajamas, scratching their crotches, drinking coffee, and snarling at internet forums.) Some people feel that it isn't worthwhile to have a separate "safe haven" for women because that implies that the rest of the forums are actively hostile, which they aren't. It's been pointed out, perhaps not very clearly, that the rest of the forums may not be hostile to women, but it's not wrong for women to want a place where they feel comfortable (this point was made clearer to me much earlier by some discussion on [info]troubleinchina's LJ). Of course, the inevitable "Where's the men's haven?!" statement got thrown out. (I'd like to know why that statement is never followed up with "Here are some issues which pertain specifically to men and which I will bring out some discussion points." I can respect that. What bugs me is not "What about men?" but rather a complete lack of followthrough on discussion and the assumption that because there is no discussion focusing on men this serves as grounds for ceasing any discussion on women. Buh?!) Anyway, my thought on the matter in general is that a forum like that should exist, not because it's a "safe haven" or some such. Rather, it serves as a place where legitimate gender issues and discussions won't get lost because they are to be the focus. Admittedly, there's the inevitable problem of perpetuation of the "Women like this, Men like that" stereotypes and categorization made based on anecdotes and outdated evolutionary psychology theories (god, how that "science" bugs me). Still, better than nothing.

- In a blog entry about how sexism is normal in the setting, the poster rails about how sexism in the setting should not be taken as an excuse to exhibit excessive sexism just to preserve authenticity. She doesn't explicitly talk about this next bit, but it got me thinking, and I realize what kinda bugs me about the "but this is normal for the setting!" when used as an excuse. Women's degradation/lower status is deliberately brought to the foreground to emphasize disparity between the sexes, but men's roles and ramifications for falling outside of those roles are not considered unless the man takes on a woman's role. For settings where there is sexism, anybody can name how women are treated badly and what their status is - there is almost never any discussion of how a man can fall outside of an approved role and how a man can be ostracized/punished for it, even though that happened. Know another reason why I love Dogs in the Vineyard? It has a long list of the roles men and women were supposed to follow. Women were supposed to take care of children, do long hours of boring menial work, be terrified of guns, and never flinch at the sight of blood. Men were supposed to not be afraid of anything, do long hours of backbreaking labour and be a steward for his family (which did not mean "lord it over his chattel" but was a job for which he was held responsible if anything went wrong, on peril of his life sometimes, if the Dogs got to him and thought it was necessary). Men have roles in DitV, and are held accountable in ways women weren't (women could be afraid, for instance, and that was understandable) when they fall out of them, and that is cool. So, I guess my point is if you're going to make a display of the sexism in the setting, you should be prepared to answer the question "So how do the men get beat up too?" And if you can't, then lay off on the women, cuz that's just lame.

Random note on queerness, identity and feminism in general

I read an article by Anne Fausto-Sterling that focused on desire. A point that she brought up that I thought was kind of neat was in how pervasive the strict male/female dichotomy is. I mean, the typical collective unconscious take on a lesbian is to lump her as "like a man" and the take on a gay man is to lump him as "like a woman." Which isn't the case on an individual basis, obviously, but when speaking categorically, that's how it's tossed about. It loses a lot of subtlety and shades of gray. I mean, let's look at me. I self-identify as a bisexual, but I joke that "you can't tell at a distance." This is largely because I'm with my girl and don't ever foresee that changing. Now, some would argue that I must be a lesbian because I've only ever slept with a woman (nevermind I've only ever slept with one person and that's a crappy sample size - amateur sociologists/psychologists are often also poor statisticians)(I get to make that general statement because most people are poor statisticians). Now, let's pretend that my girl were to suddenly disappear from my life and (after the ensuing grief-strickeness and suicide attempts) I started to date a guy. In some minds this would "prove" that I was a bisexual. In a great many more (is my impression), however, this would be me "getting over a phase", "in denial about my true sexuality" or any number of other things that would shove me into a neat "I like men" or "I like women" category. WTF? Do I have to be simultaneously fucking a man and woman in order to officially be bisexual? Guh.

...

It's far later in the evening than I expected, and my brain has stuttered to a stop, even there's more to the male/female dichotomy babble. Therefore, I flee!




(10 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]finaira
2007-09-26 04:59 pm UTC (link)
First, I typically agree with most of your points. Ask me to elaborate after I've managed to slow the barrage of e-mails from panicking 2nd years about their lab reports.

Second, this statement is made of win. Just is.

Note the capital letters - I'm talking about the collective unconscious imagining of Woman and Man, not women and men who are in their pajamas, scratching their crotches, drinking coffee, and snarling at internet forums

(Reply to this)


[info]troubleinchina
2007-09-27 04:19 am UTC (link)
Shocking, I know, but I have thoughts.

They'll have to wait. I am also feverish, and I keep misreading whole paragraphs of this.

But randomly: My friend [info]bubosquared is a Lesbian who gets the "You don't know until you've had sex!" thing all the time. Cuz, you know, at 25, she doesn't know what she finds appealing in other people, she won't understand until she's had sex.

Really.

ARG.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]finaira
2007-09-27 01:14 pm UTC (link)
...wait...lesbians don't have sex?

The hell reason are [info]ladylakira and [info]king_of_life making all those noises for? Oh right, the pr0n that they're selling. I forget myself.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]troubleinchina
2007-09-28 12:32 am UTC (link)
Oh, I misspoke. ;) I mean, [info]bubosquared has never even kissed a girl. Or has she? I mean, other than me. I don't count, right?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]ladylakira
2007-09-29 09:26 pm UTC (link)
Last I checked, you were a girl.... Did a lot change since the last time I saw you? :P

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]the_tall_man
2007-09-27 04:34 am UTC (link)
Repost this on http:www.i-would-knife-fight-a-man.com

Do it now.

You'll need to join, but still.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ladylakira
2007-09-27 04:24 pm UTC (link)
What, the whole thing?

Wait.... I don't even look at half the forums I'm a member of. Why start on another one? You could always just make a link or something.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]the_tall_man
2007-09-29 03:33 am UTC (link)
The whole thing.

Knife-Fight... Will suit you, I think.

I *think*.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]troubleinchina
2007-09-29 10:17 am UTC (link)
Ah, time! I remember having time!

Of course, I don't have much right now. Damn it. But here's some more random thoughts:

Cerise Magazine was put together by a group including some of the women on my flist that talks about women gamers. You may find it interesting.

"But what about the men!" followed by that silence really irritates me. Primarily because it has this context of "You should either shut up and stop complaining, or you should FIX OUR PROBLEMS TOO!" And other reasons. I could make a list. I think I have.

And I was thinking about the concept of "hasbians" before. It came up in some reading of Bitch Magazine. The idea that if a lesbian has a sex with a man, she was never a lesbian to begin with, but if she leaves her husband to be with a woman, she was always a lesbian, but repressed, and it feels like bi just doesn't exist. Arg. ARG. Yeah.

Anyway.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]ladylakira
2007-09-29 09:28 pm UTC (link)
I keep meaning to wander over to Cerise Magazine for awhile. Maybe when I have time.... Haha. *sigh*

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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